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Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:08:56 +0200 (MEST) From: Fighbird Subject: Re: Re: Interesting info On Sat, 28 Aug 2004, Bond. Estebond wrote: Hi there -- new to the list, invited here by the Fred-man himself. :) Seems that my posts are already being discussed around here (this one is the first I get to see of it, though). Now, lesse: Also, in your korean section, I think it is important to stress, that Sonokong has the official rights to produce Transformers Aha! That's good to know. I'd guess that they acquired the rights sometime around Beast Wars and first started distributing the US packaged toys with those Korean stickers on them, then they later switched to making their own boxes for the Japanese BW lines and Car Robots. It's all speculation on my art, though, based on what I saw when I was there from 98-99. Well, little is really known about the Takara/Sonokong relationship, but we do know that they estabilshed contacts/rigths to produce Takara toys back around 1992, when Sonokong got the license to produce the post-G1 transforming toy line called Brave (or Yuusha). The funny thing about that is, that they (Sonokong) still retain the rights to produce Brave toys, even after Takara abandoned the line in 1997. This means, that you can still get freshly produced Brave toys to this day in Korean stores; the sublines actually get relaunched every couple of years, and you can always find the exact production dates on the back of the boxes. My gut feeling is, that this is pretty much the same deal with the TF molds. Although long gone from the Japanese shelves, Koreans still get freshly molded toys, which would explain the steady flow of korean toys on eBay. Actually, according to Sonokong's official website, they still have the following TF's in production: Car Robots: (Page No Longer Available) BW II: (Page No Longer Available) BW Neo: (Page No Longer Available) I have never seen any of the imported Takara BWII sets (with korean stickers added to them??), so I can't really comment on those, although my best guess is, that those were a test to see, if the market was ready for these new toys -- and about those generic boxes, I'm guessing it was just to sell overstock/bundle them in a cheaper package. Dunno. Haven't seen any myself. What do the copyright stamps say on the korean toys? My Korean Victory Leo (possibly bootleg) has an Olympus stamping on it, for whatever that's worth. I've already told that story a bllion times. Maybe so, but it's 1st time for me... :)
To my best knowledge, your Olympus VL is a bootleg, although a very good one... seen it for sale a couple of times, although I've never checked the stamping...
-Fighbird on the Brave Mailing List |
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:29:35 -0000 From: "Bond. Estebond" Subject: Re: Interesting info I have never seen any of the imported Takara BWII sets (with korean stickers added to them??), so I can't really comment on those, The only legitimate Transformer product I saw being sold on the Korean economy was early pre-transmetal Beast Wars. They were in the US packages but they had a small sticker over the 'Beast Wars' logo. They also had stickers over the UPC on the backs of the boxes. They were written in han-gul and were the only part of the packaging with the Korean alphabet on it. I'll upload some pictures from my Transquito box. This was before any of the BWII product with Korean language packaging hit the shelves. I never saw any Beast Wars product with packaging printed in han-gul like they started doing with BWII and beyond.
 There's another bit to the picture as I remember it, and it's that there was a tremendous lag in current product on the shelves. When I was there in 98-99 they'd barely gotten the Mega Transquito wave, Deluxe Cheetor with green eyes and other second wave and later deluxes, and the spittor wave of basics. Early guys like that were the latest thing to hit the South Korean shelves. Heck, I could even find Mega Inferno and Ultra T-Rex Megatron the purple dinosaur. It was at least four years since Barney Megatron came out. So the legit TF scene in South Korea at the time was in the dark ages, at least two years behind. Then I'd go to Yongsan army installation, which was the only US base large enough to have a decent toy selection, and I'd pick up TMII Dinobot and TMII Cheetor. Thank god for AAFES. So there was the typical overseas distribution lag but I imagine that cleared up by the time Sonokong started with Car Robots. What do the copyright stamps say on the korean toys? You mean the Beast Wars ones that came in US packages with the little sticker? Dang. I don't know. I never took pictures of the ones I opened, and they're all in storage now, or I gave them to my sister. I know she has the Korean green eyes Cheetor, but I don't think she ever opened it. To my best knowledge, your Olympus VL is a bootleg, although a very good one... seen it for sale a couple of times, although I've never checked the stamping... I'm very sure it's a bootleg, too. As far as I'm concerned, if there's no Autobot or Decepticon insignia, it's probably a bootleg. And 'Victory Lion' doesn't have Takara markings or any faction symbols. The side of the box shows a Star Saber and the combined Victory Saber mode. Have you ever seen a South Korean Star Saber by Olympus? It has to exist. I never found one, though.
-steve with evil GREENEYES |
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:27:17 +0200 (MEST) From: Fighbird Subject: Re: Re: Interesting info On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Bond. Estebond wrote: I have never seen any of the imported Takara BWII sets (with korean stickers added to them??), so I can't really comment on those, The only legitimate Transformer product I saw being sold on the Korean economy was early pre-transmetal Beast Wars. They were in the US packages but they had a small sticker over the 'Beast Wars' logo. They also had stickers over the UPC on the backs of the boxes. They were written in han-gul and were the only part of the packaging with the Korean alphabet on it. I'll upload some pictures from my Transquito box. Thanks for the neat pics! Actually, the Elephant logo is for a different (ligit) korean toy company called Young Toys; they have the rights to Eldoran, Digimon, Super Sentai (Power Rangers) and others. Veeery interesting... www.youngtoys.com
 Okay, this is how I picture it: Like most of the rest of the world, US BW hit non-US shelves about 1 to 2 years after their US debut (heck, I bought my T-Rex Megs in a local store around 1998), and they were in UK packaging. Korean manufacturer Young Toys realise, how popular BW is, and starts importing (maybe even unofficially, but I doubt it) left-over US stick (as the scans seems to indicate, that the box is US in origin). Slap on a sticker, and presto: Another sales hit. :) In comes Sonokong, who at that point has had a close relationship with Takara for quite some years. They realise the potential as well, and establish the rights to get the Japanese releases, and start spitting them out around 1999, according to your account here. Young Toys, seing that Sonokong are making their toys from scratch in potentially unlimited numbers, instead of importing deadstock like themselves, realise the battle is lost, and pull their own BW toys off the market again. But this is all pure speculation on my part... :) This was before any of the BWII product with Korean language packaging hit the shelves. I never saw any Beast Wars product with packaging printed in han-gul like they started doing with BWII and beyond. I was actually thinking about some of the pics Fred have on his korean page:
  Some of these are clearly Japanese, and lack any korean markings as far as I can tell. That would in my mind put them in the "unofficial parrallel import" category, i.e., some dude bought them in Japan and put them in his local toy shop. Korean auction houses regularly have japanese BW2/BW Neo for auction, and they have no korean markings on them what-so-ever... so I wouldn't consider i.e. Claw Jaw an official korean release, unless someone can produce a box with korean markings. So there was the typical overseas distribution lag but I imagine that cleared up by the time Sonokong started with Car Robots. Actaully -- as hinted above -- I have a feeling it started much earlier than CR...
 What do the copyright stamps say on the korean toys? You mean the Beast Wars ones that came in US packages with the little sticker? Dang. I don't know. I never took pictures of the ones I opened, and they're all in storage now, or I gave them to my sister. I know she has the Korean green eyes Cheetor, but I don't think she ever opened it. No, actually, I was thinking about the Sonokong ones. :) To my best knowledge, your Olympus VL is a bootleg, although a very good one... seen it for sale a couple of times, although I've never checked the stamping... I'm very sure it's a bootleg, too. As far as I'm concerned, if there's no Autobot or Decepticon insignia, it's probably a bootleg. And 'Victory Lion' doesn't have Takara markings or any faction symbols. The side of the box shows a Star Saber and the combined Victory Saber mode. Have you ever seen a South Korean Star Saber by Olympus? Nope, and I really doubt there even exists one. Many bootleggers only do 1 bot of a gestault or series, depending on what they have access to. And the pics on your box might even be copied off of the original (check to see if the pics have any faction symbols). And even the presence/lack of faction symbols aren't even a sure give-away about a toys origin. It's dog eat dog down there, I guess. :)
Fighbird, petting his dog |
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Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 05:58:13 -0000 From: "Bond. Estebond" Subject: Re: Interesting info Thanks for clearing up which company uses the green elephant! That's good to know. I was actually thinking about some of the pics Fred have on his korean page: Some of these are clearly Japanese, and lack any korean markings as far as I can tell. That would in my mind put them in the "unofficial parrallel import" category, i.e., some dude bought them in Japan and put them in his local toy shop. That's what I think, too. I saw a lot of clearly imported Japanese product in many Korean toy stores, mostly Bandai LM, LMHG, and perfect series models. So I know the Koreans would import at least those. But for TFs I never saw any japanese product on the shelves in any large numbers. Heck, I never saw japanese TFs at all unless they were at japanese toy import kiosks at the electronics markets. I wouldn't consider i.e. Claw Jaw an official korean release, unless someone can produce a box with korean markings. The version of Claw Jaw in Fred's picture is the character Scuba from Beast Wars II, so your import theory covers it. It's clearly Japanese. I have a picture of a South Korean Claw Jaw I bought. I'll put it up along with a few other other pictures of Skor BW toys I bought over there. I also have pictures of the stickers that they put on the back of the UPC area of each package. The printing on the stickers differed depending on the item's size class. I have pics of the basic, deluxe, and mega stickers. They're a good price reference because the MSRP is printed on them in won. I never bought that Ultra BW Megatron. Now I'm wishing I did! And the pics on your box might even be copied off of the original (check to see if the pics have any faction symbols). I know I took pics of that box. I'll search my disks. All of my stuff is in storage right now. I wish I could just dig it out and have it in front of me. steve with evil
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:05:03 +0100 (MET) Korean toy manufacturer Sonokong have opened up an english site, which can be found here: http://eng.sonokong.co.kr/main/ Of interest is the date given under Company History, where they in May 1992 "Signed import/export contract with Takara Co., Ltd.(Japan)" (although I have a Sonokong-produced Brave toy release in Takara packaging dating 1991 at home... guess they were testing waters back then). Next interesting item in that list is October 1997: "Developed Sonokong as a complex toy maker, such as: Transformers, Dolls, RC vehicles, Character, and merchandising business." I'm not sure the Transformers mentioned here is referring to the TF line or the Brave line, because they insist on calling Brave toys "Transformers" through out their list. But the date matches up pretty nicely with the BW 2nd toys they have released, AFAIR. Their products section isn't that well developed yet, so scoot over to their korean site if you wanna drool over TFs. :) http://toy.sonokong.co.kr/main/default.aspx Oh -- this is what the factory looks like: http://eng.sonokong.co.kr/01company/images/photo_01.jpg Martin Their products section isn't that well developed yet, so scoot over to their korean site if you wanna drool over TFs. :) http://toy.sonokong.co.kr/main/default.aspx Had a thought last night: I hadn't really noticed it myself, but all the Sonokong TF releases from BW2, BW Neo and Car Robots are all Takara-only toys. Most of BW2 were rewamped Kenner molds, and BW Neo was also (but to a lesser degree); CR was a Japan exclusive line anyways (originally). Makes sense -- especially considering all the Young Toy stamped Hasbro-imports we've seen here on the list: Young Toys got the rights to import Hasbro/Kenner toys, while Sonokong got the rights to produce Takara molds. Makes me wonder why I didn't see that to begin with?
Martin, cleaning his glasses... |
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